Keith Van Sickle ⋅ Menlo Park , CA Tensilica ⋅ 25 years experience

Tim,

You asked about how to network when you are 19 months away from being available to join a company.

I would suggest you seek out people in companies/roles/industries that may be interesting to you and ask if you can do an "informational interview" with them. This is where you largely ask about them - their jobs, their career paths, their industries. Most people are happy to do this. In fact, most people are more than happy to talk about themselves!

What does this do for you? Several things. First, it gives you insight into jobs and careers that may be the most promising paths for you. Second, it gives you the opportunity to describe your own background (after you are done "interviewing" them) and get feedback on what is potentially appealing/not appealing to potential employers and how to best position yourself. Third, it builds your network and gets your name out there, even though it will be a while before you become available.

With every person you meet, ask at the end of the meeting if there is anyone else they suggest you talk to, then follow up with them. In addition, every 3-4 months send a note to everyone you met with, giving them a brief update on what you are doing, sending them your best wishes, etc. You want to be "top of mind" and people tend to forget you after 3-4 months, so find an excuse to remind them of your existence. The reason to do this is because as time goes by and you get closer to being available for new employment, you will want to connect and ask if they are aware of opportunities for you. They may not be aware of any job openings at the time that you write, but if you remain top of mind they will think of you when they hear about a job a month later or whatever.

You want to plant a lot of seeds. Only a few ever sprout but you never know which ones they will be so water them all!

Best of luck to you.

Sara Idle ⋅ Wayzata , MN Cargill ⋅ 10 years experience

Tim,
I would be happy to connect with you and discuss a bit more about your experience, the path you desire to go and how to best approach. I'm an HR Manager (maybe less skeptical:) at a large mulitinational. I also work with attorney's so have a bit of insight into what may translate or how to go about it. Feel free to contact me if you would like (sara_idle@cargill.com).
Best Regards,
Sara

Ashutosh Mehta ⋅ Edison , NJ ⋅ 16 years experience

Hi Tim,

You have very good profile. You have management, IT and law skills which is kind of rare combination, and it's good.

In recent years, a role of Technical Project Manager has emerged in IT world. A person in this position should know technology in detail and may/may not require hands on programming. Also, person should know how to manage tech team, business and management. You can surely explore that position in LinkedIn, Monster, Dice, CareerBuilder, Indeed etc. portals.

Also, consulting firms like Ernst & Young, Deloitte, PWC may be place to explore for rewarding role. Not 100% sure but E&Y has drive for hiring veterans in 2015.

I would also suggest building good profile in Linked In, expanding your network by enrolling to relevant Groups in Linked In. e.g. Groups based on geolocation of your preference, HR/recruiter related groups, technology related groups etc. You can follow many recruiters in Twitter to get quick communication about job opening.

Good luck.

Ashutosh

Jerry Welsh ⋅ Middleville , MI Master Military Transition Advisor/HPS GPO ⋅ 30 years experience

If the JD is limiting your search and you do not wish to use those skills, then drop it from your profile and resume. I agree with above comment a lot of good hiring managers would see it as a benefit. Maybe your networking needs to be improved and or change the focus of who you are targeting. If you are on JD LinkedIn groups that will limit your exposure. I would recommend expanding your network to include folks like Seth.

Seth Lynch ⋅ Plano , TX Hewlett Packard ⋅ 15 years experience

Tim,

I have never met a corporate executive that sees a JD as a liability, In fact, most of the executives I have worked for over the last 10 years have a law degree.

You are too experienced to go into a typical corporate management leader development program. Those are geared towards someone with significantly less experience in most large companies.

I would recommend you look at two potential tracks. First is contract manager positions at large technology companies. I would love to have a contract manager with an understanding of software development, DB management, etc. You can look at anything from the large HP, Cisco, IBM, AT&T Verizon jauggernauts to smaller tech firms like SAS, CSC to large systems integrators like Lockheed, Northrup, GD, Keiwit, Maquarie, Thales, Sumitomo etc.

The other option would be to go the consulting route. With practical software development and systems integration knowledge, an MBA, and a JD, your resume would rise to the top of a lot of lists.

Don't worry about any more certifications. Nothing is going to stand out any more than what you already have on your resume.

Finally, make sure you build your resume to put the self you want assessed in the recruiter's hands. Your resume is not your ORB. It doesn't have to list everything you have done in chronological order. Write your resume to tell the story you want to tell. Rearrange your skills and accomplishments to match those required for the particular job you want. Just because attorney was your last job doesn't mean it has to be the first thing on your resume.

Good luck. If you see anything at HP that interests you on our job board, shoot me a note and I will try to help get you connected with the hiring manager.

tamme tannehill ⋅ Louisville , KY Find Me A Franchise, LLC ⋅ 35 years experience

Hi Tim....thank you so much for your service! My first thought is it probably is not your credentials but the fact that you do not get out of the military for another year. It wouldn't make sense for an employer to hire or consider you for a position now. Basically, you're looking too soon. If you know which industries you want to go into, I would suggest contacting potential companies and ask them for 15-20 minutes of their time to investigate their company and industry further. Let them know you are just gathering information so you can decide which direction you want to go in when you do get out. Because you are a veteran, most will be honored to give you their time and to be thought of as an expert in their field. This not only gets you a step up to other applicants but also allows you to build a relationship with someone in the company. Don't hide your accomplishments and go big, ask for the President and work your way down. Your credentials show you are driven for success. They will take notice. Be confident and persistent and don't take no for an answer. As an previous employer, they will be impressed and they will recognize your JD as an asset. Good luck to you! Tamme

SIDDHARTH ( SID) SAPOLIA ⋅ Kennesaw , GA IBM ⋅ 20 years experience

Tim, I think you have a strong resume and skill to enter the corporate world. The Home Depot and Coca Cola has a very good program to hire Veterans in the management roles. Please apply on their website . Also use linked in to increase your reach, it has lots of recruiters looking for candidates. If you like to practice the corporate interview skills I will be happy to help and get on a call with you. Best Regards Sid

ALAN SCHWALBE ⋅ Cherry Hill , NJ Jacobs, Schwalbe & Petruzzelli, P.C. ⋅ 33 years experience

Hello Tim.

Your JD will never be a liability. It is just one part of the skill set that you bring to the table.. But, if you think the JD would be poorly received by a prospective employer, for any reason, drop it from your resume. With your background and skill set I would suggest you might want to consider having more than one resume, or, actually, producing individual resumes for the particular company and position that you are applying for.

I had several classmates At law school who never practice law. They worked in various fields and the JD was never a liability. My third year roommate actually joined the Navy and flew Tomcats. Another went to United Engineers and worked in their procurement and contracts departments. Another joined the FBI. Others went into business.

I would suggest you look toward larger firms with larger staffs. Some firms choose to have their larger offices managed by attorneys. The type of firms that do the multinational work that you are interested in would be found in the larger cities, particularly on either coast. It would seem you have plenty of time to perform your due diligence. I wish you all the best.

Dave Lay ⋅ Lincoln , AL CPC Logistics ⋅ 25 years experience

An MBA doesn't get you a job, experience does. The MBA will help you get promotions. Lower your expectations and start working. The rest will follow.

Mark Prozaki ⋅ Hillsboro , OR Jet Reports International ⋅ 30 years experience

Tim,

The main reason why the job hunt went badly in 2011-12 was the economy. Nobody was hiring. Anybody with your educational background would be immediately considered capable, intellectual and possibly overqualified for a lot of jobs.

I see that you have an MBA and IT skills. That's a very unique combination. Lawyers are not often known to be IT savvy. That might suggest a certain career direction.

Another thought might be getting your CPA. To get your MBA you had to take at least some accounting. Anybody with a JD and CPA is GOLDEN !!!!

How about the FBI? It's my understanding that many of them have either accounting or JD's.

When it comes to networking...2 words....LINKED IN. That's how I got this job. If you are using Twitter or one of the other social networking product, be careful. Employers are using information in these systems to evaluate candidates.

I talk to business people every day. You have more innate skills than most of them.

Good Luck,

Mark Prozaki

Jon Sorid ⋅ Mount Laurel , NJ Johnson & Johnson ⋅ 21 years experience

Thank you for your service! Higher level management positions generally require deep experience in that functional area. For example, hiring managers in a pharmaceutical company looking to fill a "Director of Operations" role would seek people with deep experience in pharmaceutial manufacturing. Similary, hiring managers looking to fill an "IT Manager" role want experience with the particular IT systems with which they work. Your MBA is an excellent investment in a broad skillset and your military experience demonstrates strong leadrship skills, but experience is critical for higher level corporate positions. Please don't get me wrong - I've mentored several military leaders who I believe would thrive in senior management positions, but the reality of the hiring process in corporate America is that these senior management positions are almost always filled by people with direct experience.

All that said, some suggestions...
- Keep your JD on your resume! You've proven that you can understand our complex legal system - this is an excellent signal to hiring managers that you're likely capable of understanding complexity in the business world.
- Focus your job search. From your description, it sounds like you have direct experience as an IT Project Manager.
- Another job to consider... almost all big companies have an internal business process consulting group (e.g., Six Sigma, Process Excellence, Lean, etc.). The titles vary by company, but anyone working in that company could likely point you to the group that works on improving business processes. You have direct experience in improving HOW your groups have operated - bring that out in your resume. You have advanced degrees - this will get you in the door with these groups since they value people with advanced degrees and a broad skillset (and often appreciate people who are not biased by having worked in the company for years and can bring outside perspectives).

Brage Garofalo, M.A. ⋅ South San Francisco , CA Abbvie, Inc. ⋅ 16 years experience

Tim,
In a corporate setting, you actually have quite a few options open to you with a law degree and as a practicing attorney. Though I know you didn't want to focus on it, I would suggest you consider looking at various options - like in-house counsel at a mid/large company. Additionally, some larger companies look to have someone who has knowledge of the law even though they are not practicing attorneys.

You note that networking is not your strong suit, however, now is the time to be making connections and doing informational interviews to help you learn where your skill set can truly be leveraged and in what type(s) of settings and industries.

I would be more than happy to help make introductions for you with some colleagues who have done a myriad of things with a law degree; some are practicing attorneys, others are not.

Lastly, you mention several different types of work; logistics, finance, operations...they are all quite different from one another, so it's to your advantage to focus your search to a job/career that aligns with your skill set.

I would be more than happy to speak with you further about this well if you'd like. Just let me know how I can help.

Vartges Saroyan ⋅ New York , NY Department of Homeland Security ⋅ 5 years experience

Hi Tim,

I have a bachelor's in business and a law degree and considered going for a MBA prior to law school, so I can understand where you're coming from.

While I haven't reviewed everyone's comments here in great detail, I imagine that your job search has been complicated by the glut of JDs and MBAs looking for work. If that wasn't the case, I'm sure you would've lined up a position in line with your ambitions. Given that there's so much competition, perhaps you're encountering these three issues.

First, you are a professional with many years of experience looking to break into a new industry. Perhaps recruiters see you as having too much experience for entry level jobs but enough experience (or enough of the right experience) for mid career jobs you want. Since most graduates have a shorter temporal gap between undergrad and grad degrees (especially JDs) it may be more of a challenge finding the right job.

Second, employers may be hesitant to take on someone (especially for more junior positions) with a dual degree. In theory, nobody would contest that having two degrees gives you all sorts of advantages versus someone with only one degree. However, in practice, recruiters may be more hesitant to hire you because you have a very diverse background. At least that was my experience. After I graduated from law school, I interviewed for a business consulting job, and I kept getting asked about whether I would still be looking for a traditional legal position if I were to get this job. Some employers were skeptical of motivation for applying to certain jobs, and maybe companies aren't exactly sure about your interests too.

Finally, maybe a different approach to resume writing is in order, especially because you have so much diverse experience to talk about.

I could be off on some or all of this, but hopefully it is helpful. If you ever want to speak more, I would be glad to, just email me at Vartges.Saroyan@gmail.com. Best of luck to you.

Vartges

Lowell Sandoval ⋅ Seattle , WA LowellSandoval.com ⋅ 25 years experience

Tim,

Thank you for serving the greatest Nation on Earth. Much appreciated.

A great starting point is to look into the future and picture the lifestyle you desire. What are the things outside of work that would give you great satisfaction? What is important to you in your personal life? Careers enable these things we love to come true. Once you isolate those personal drivers, then you are ready to explore the 3 top career opportunities that will fit best with that lifestyle.

Examine your work days over the past 5-10 years and separate out the daily tasks that you really looked forward to, and those tasks that were not so pleasurable. Normally the pleasurable task are ones where you excel.

Now you are ready to locate specific job descriptions that execute on those desirable tasks.

Create 3 versions of your resume. One for each of the 3 job descriptions. You want to directly reflect in your resume the attributes the job is looking for in their requirements.
If you feel the JD is harming your chances, move your Education section to the end of the resume, but mention in your Intro that you have an MBA. Always lead with strengths.

Your resume is sales literature piece selling you as a product to the hiring manager. Your benefits must match directly to what the job needs to have solved. All skills are transferable to other markets, industries and careers.

Hope this helps. Any questions email me at info@LowellSandoval.com .

Best wishes,

Lowell Sandoval

Tsegga Medhin ⋅ Raleigh , NC IBM ⋅ 20 years experience

As an MBA/JD you have what companies look for these days, analytical and business acumen . Present yourself as someone who is going to help them find solutions for their clients. Your military leadership and teaming skills are transferable and needed in our globally interconnected world. Proud of you and appreciate your services.

Laurence Schnabel ⋅ Templeton , CA Lewis Brisbois Bisgaard & Smith LLP ⋅ 45 years experience

I graduated from UCLA Law school in 1967 and thereafter was a defense trial lawyer in Los Angeles. I represented such companies as Chevron, Estee Lauder, Sherwin-Williams , Abbott Laboratories and Harris Corporation re employment , commercial , personal injury and insurance coverage matters. I am astounded that you find your JD a liability in getting a corporate job. A lot of folks at the top of the corporate pile have JD degrees ( Brian Moynihan- Chairman/CEO of Bank of America and Lloyd Blankfein at Goldman Sachs , for example have law degrees. Go on the web and you will see all the corporate chiefs with JDs). Corporate execs need to know about laws and courts because so much of what they do deals with class actions, govt. regs, rival corporations' unfriendly take over efforts and contract disputes ( you took corporate law ,securities law, commercial law, contracts in law school, as an example of the knowledge useful in a corp.) Instead of hiding your JD in the closet you should be extolling its virtues, giving you an extra dimension. I suggest you chat with a corporate law prof at a law school , an in house counsel in a large corporation and a corporate atty at a large law firm re how a law degree is to your benefit. Laurence Schnabel, CDR, JAGC, USNR-R (ret.)

FRANCIS TEPEDINO, ESQ. ⋅ San Diego , CA THE CONDOR GROUP ⋅ 30 years experience

Whoa! You must be talking to the wrong folks! I once got fired because I was attending Law School. I always felt it was not me but the jerk Boss who perhaps was nervous. Contact USAA in San Antonio. Contact the Oil/gas companies in North Dakota. They are looking for MBA/JD. Get into procurement and/or contracts. Big opportunities there for advancement and great training in how companies really operate. Good luck.

Barry Sosnick ⋅ Greenlawn , NY Great Whites Pediatric Dentistry & Orthodontics ⋅ 5 years experience

To add to my previous response, contact career services at your MBA program and law school. Your tuition bought you a lifetime of their support. Most alumni forget this promise the programs made when they were trying to entice you to pick their program.

Barry Sosnick ⋅ Greenlawn , NY Great Whites Pediatric Dentistry & Orthodontics ⋅ 5 years experience

I once had a student approach me after a conference panel. She asked me about law school. I mentioned I wasn't an attorney, but I knew plenty. I introduced her to a dean of a school. He explained to the student that the value of law school is that it trains the student to think through problems thoroughly, from at least two different sides.

I would focus on these soft skills that you picked up in law school and your career. Marketing involves understanding the customer -- you are trained to think objectively about their needs. Lawyers tend to be excellent writers and detail oriented. It comes from pouring over reams of documents and condensing them down to the relevant points. Attorneys tend to be skilled negotiators, so the training helps in purchasing and M&A work.

Quantify your skills in a way hiring mangers will appreciate. For example. you can talk about settling 220 cases (relevant to lawyers) or negotiated 220 deals (relevant to managers). Legal briefs become reports. It is an issue of semantics, but the phrasing matters!

As far as specific career paths, I will suggest a few:

Private equity funds, especially turnaround specialists, may favor an MBA/JD. Private equity is incredibly difficult to break into, so unless your degree is from a top 20 school, forget it.

There are businesses that service law firms that would view your combined degree as an asset. There are companies that provide back office services for law firms (I had dinner with the head of one company last weekend). Another friend sold a business that automated document searches for lawyers.

Seek out consulting firms that have a history of guiding law firms. The last decade changed the structure of law firms. They expanded through mergers. Many are now multi-national. Outsourcing to lower cost markets has increased. Turnaround times shrank, utilizing attorneys in different time zones (need work done overnight inexpensively, use an attorney in New Zealand, because their day is our night, for example). Consultants help firms manage these types of change.

Finally, the large law firms are global and have considerable infrastructure. Your classmates are too young to make partner, so you may have to go through a more conventional search of law firms in order to try to break into operations.

I hope that this is useful. Best of luck!

David Poage ⋅ Arlington , VA U.S. Air Force, Colonel ⋅ 26 years served

Tim,

It seems you have a knack (or at least an affinity) for IT....you also asked about additional certifications. The University of Syracuse has a free program for transitioning veterans that you might want to investigate. There are numerous options, but I would suggest at least looking into obtaining ITIL certification through their Veteran's Carer Transition Program (VCTP) http://vets.syr.edu/employment/vctp-learning-paths/

Since you also mentioned networking as an area for improvement, here is some food for thought. If you intend to relocate after you transition out, there will be some challenges in building the "local" network; I know this from personal experience. Whether or not you relocate, I suggest you consider joining the local chapter of a professional organization in your desired career field (attend the meetings and volunteer on a committee) and/or become active in the local chamber of commerce. You can also leverage connections you make through your local house of worship if that's part of your life.

Best of Luck!

Dave

Todd Nisbet ⋅ Columbia , TN North Highland ⋅ 26 years experience

Tim,

Not sure why you had issues last time around. I assume you were unable to get to the right people. Everything I read indicates you are more than qualified in a variety of functional areas. Our consulting firm is always looking for capable people like you. Ping me at todd.nisbet@northhighland.com so we can set up time to chat.

Todd

Jeff Shoemaker ⋅ Lake In The Hills , IL Colorado Technical University ⋅ 20 years experience

You need to develop an approach for contacting the functional leader directly and by pass HR. Identify the right stakeholder, understand what you have to offer his team and create an employer value statement. How can make his job easier, what is the value you add, etc. If you struggle with this take the approach of contacting the appropriate leader and ask him if you can meet. You would like to tap into his experience in hopes of getting some career advice and guidance. You're paying him a compliment by asking him for advice. He'll make time to speak with him

Tim Mathews ⋅ San Antonio , TX U.S. Army, Captain ⋅ 11 years served

All,

Thank you for the quick and thoughtful feedback. This is all helpful.

One comment from Seth stuck out: "I have never met a corporate executive that sees a JD as a liability, In fact, most of the executives I have worked for over the last 10 years have a law degree."

My problem is that I have never been interviewed by a corporate executive. It was their skeptical HR and middle-management folks who looked at my resume as though it had been written in Klingon. Is there a way to get an interview with someone higher up?

With regard to networking, that is certainly one of my weaknesses. It is not something that I have pursued vigorously, because I am still 19 months away from the end of my service obligation, and I am not sure how to go about it. "Hey, I want to work in your industry... but I can't start until late 2016." I am not sure what anyone can do with that information. But, I am certainly open to any advice.

I was a bit surprised that people zeroed in on the IT part of my skillset, which is entirely self-taught. I can find ways to make applications do what I want, but I am unfamiliar with best practices or how teams collaborate in the development environment. I have regarded this skill as something useful around the office - a nice additional skill that is handy and reassures an employer that I have pre-requisite IT skills for any job. I can modify a co-worker's spreadsheet to give it additional functionality, automate tasks with an Access database, and I have dabbled with data-driven personal websites using SQL Server, C#, and ASP.NET. My IT skills are not something that I considered to be more than a bullet comment on my resume. So, this is something for me to mull over some more.

Again, thank you all for the helpful feedback.