Travis D. ⋅ Arlington , VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 9 years served

For anyone out there with similar questions when applying to school I wanted to follow-up.

I was accepted to a top MBA program and am currently half way through the first semester. Now on to the same process for an internship this summer; anyone looking for a corporate strategy intern :)

My advice:

1. Be sure to take the essays and entrance exams seriously.

2. Have a plan and follow through.

3. Assume you are the best candidate for the school.

4. Know what you want to get out of attending the program.

5. If still active duty, be sure to make time for the above. Good leadership will be supportive.

Side note: Calculate the tuition differences of all schools, it may help narrow down your list of schools.

Feel free to message me if you have any questions about transitioning or applying to MBA programs.

Thomas C. ⋅ New York , NY ⋅ 10 years experience

I agree with everyone here who has said that a low GPA is not a dealbreaker, even for top programs. A few points of advice:

1. Stop referring to it as dropping out! In your essays, say that you take academics very seriously and you always planned to finish your degree and then go on to get an advanced degree, but you put your personal ambition on hold because you felt your country needed you. I think it's a compelling story.

2. Remember this: business schools want people who are going to be successful. Your job isn't to convince them to let you in despite a low GPA, your job is to convince them that you are an intelligent, talented, driven, creative person who is aiming for the top and wants to go to b-school to hone his craft. Prove that the low GPA is not a reflection of your capability by giving specific examples of your success in the intelligence world (to the extent that you can!).

3. Ace those GMATs. Study, study, study. They don't measure your innate intelligence, they measure your ability to learn. If you do enough practice tests, and spend enough time developing strategies for how to answer the same kinds of questions over and over with slightly different twists, you can crack 700.

4. If you can swing it, hire a consultant. For a few hundred bucks, you can get a real pro to go over your application and give you great strategy tips for your essays. They're sometimes pricey, maybe $100/hour, but you can get everything you need done in 3-5 hours if you just want some essay tips. Think about it: you're looking at spending $100,000 on business school, plus you're foregoing whatever income you would've made while you're taking classes, so $500 is a drop in the bucket of what you're spending- and think about the difference in your future income if you get into a top MBA program vs if you don't! $500 is nothing.

Good luck and post back here with progress!

Wesley Harris ⋅ Orlando , FL UPS ⋅ 28 years experience

Travis, first and foremost thank you for your service!!! As I read some of the posts I was compelled to add one simple statement; "There is strong, and then there is Army Strong" seems like I have heard that somewhere before :)
The strength that you have demonstrated in your choices to place your academic education "on hold" to continue your "service education" speaks volumes about your Army Strong character. Further, your commitment to face the challenges ahead of you to get into and successfully complete an MBA in a top program speaks even louder. I echo the earlier posts and not only commend you for your accomplishments but I also say to you that you are exactly what great organizations need and are searching for; strong people that build strong organizations.
Your biggest challenge is positioning. If your resume is not the most stellar in the tall stack of resumes then don't rely on your resume to tell your very compelling story. Find other ways, networking opportunities, to tell your story in person. What cannot be read from a page can certainly be communicated in person. Thanks again for your service, I am praying for you and if you are a praying person, pray for the strength to learn, pray for the strength retain and pray for the doors to be opened. Then by faith, the rest shall be a wonderful history!!! God bless.

KJ MacKenzie ⋅ Cincinnati , OH ⋅ 15 years experience

Dear Travis Duggan

First off Happy Veterans day!
Sounds like you really have got your ducks in a row - completing a Bachelors while you essentially were working full time. That is very commendable!
I am a buis grad myself. When I graduated after 4 years, only 50% of my fellow grads had found jobs. Sad story when you spend 4 years of your life and $$.
I urge you to do the Math. I doesn’t hurt to do some research. I was just talking to a lawyer friend. He said that many Law schools grad do NOT get jobs in the field. As an example, he said William and Mary law school claimed that 90% of those who graduated got jobs. They failed to mention that a high percentage did not get jobs in their field as LAWYERS. It may have even included those who got jobs at McDonalds!!!
Considering the average cost to go to these schools is 30-40K/yr, times 3 years, you are 120K in the hole PLUS the lost income ( opportunity costly) for the 3 years. If the av. wage in the USA is $20/ hr, that is 40k/yr times 3 = another 120k. So a law degree can cost 240,000 – that is almost ¼ million dollars!! How disheartening it must be for the 10% at William and Mary who could not even get a job. That school is supposed to be one of the top ones! I am not sure what the math for MBAs but probably that number less one third.

I do not know what the rate of placement. There are likely some stats online. Schools could provide some stats ( however they likely exaggerate) for MBAs, but your could do you own research. Most schools have a list or phone directory of students at their libraries. You could get the last couple of years and call them yourself ( get a friend to help) and ask them how they are doing ( did they get a job? Good job? What are they making? - save the touchy questions like salary til the end – you are more likely to get an honest answer.) A Stats person could give you an idea of how few you have to call to get a representative size of the population. I don’t think you need more than 100 – likely much less.

University is not cheap. You are giving up 2 years worth of a salary PLUS the tuition. Who knows it may be worth it. There are some IT skills that are needed ( I work on Informatica) and it does not take much to learn it and it pays good – average 80-90k per year. In America the course can cost a few thousand. I can introduce to some Indian teachers who will charge only 450. Thirty 1-hr classes plus study could be done part-time over 15 weeks easily - even less, and while you are working full time even. If you write the test for certification ( which costs 500) you have a shot at the 2500+ listings for jobs all over America for this skill. That is just an example. Then you can do your MBA at your leisure or learn more tech skills. I had a co worker do his MBA and ended up going back to his old jib as an IT tester – it pays good.

Anyway I hope I gave you some ideas, and did not discourage but It is good to know what you are up against. As in battle knowing your enemy helps you win. So apply the same principle here – it is your life – it pays to get info before you make a decision, big like this…
If you want we can talk on the phone.

Tale care

KJ MacKenzie

Brian Berenbach ⋅ Edison , NJ Georgia Institute of Technology ⋅ 45 years experience

Travis,

There are many ways to get back in the groove. It is relatively easy to take courses at the university of your choice if you are willing to do it non-matric. Take two courses, do really well, get a recommendation from the professor, and then take the requisite gmat or other necessary graduate exam.

My son was expelled from NYU for poor grades. Years later, he took courses at Harvard non-matric, did really well and went on to matriculate and get his degree from Harvard.

If you reallly want the MBA and are willing to work at it, i suggest you consider the above strategy at a prestigious school, where the MBA will have meaning. It is never too late to excel.

Best of luck!

Travis D. ⋅ Arlington , VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 9 years served

Heather and Thomas.

Thank you.

I think you are both right about the GMAT. It is more important than I thought. Before my first practice test I assumed it was just another standardized test. For anyone thinking about business school you should start studying early. Taking a class is extremely helpful. The test taking methodology will allow you to jump into the 700 score range. The math and grammar really is at the high school level.

And no worries, I wont market myself as a college dropout in the essays. Just wanted to get the readers attention.

-Travis

Heather Gillbanks ⋅ Houston , TX General Electric ⋅ 26 years experience

Upward trend is definitely good. Be aware that - whenever the economy is down, enrollment tends to go up (especially true right now, with record enrollments). For MBA, most important will be new GMAT scores, rather than GPA.

Travis D. ⋅ Arlington , VA U.S. Army, Staff Sergeant ⋅ 9 years served

George,

Appreciate the response. My GPA is 2.8, with an upward trend of 3.4 in final year of core upper-level courses (27 credits). My goal is to get close to a 700 on the GMAT, but a 650 is more realistic.

I am in the editing phase for all my essays. Luckily I am on transition leave. This allows me to spend most of my days studying for the GMAT and working on essays. Of course I need to find internships/temp-work to fill the gap until next fall. Sitting on my hands for 8 months is not an option.

Side note for other veterans looking into college. DoD MWR has a digital library with test prep materials (ACT/SAT/LSAT/GMAT/GRE). It gives you a good start on studying. Or your children can use it when they start studying for college.

http://www.nelnetsolutions.com/dod/

George Niece ⋅ Saint Paul , MN eGlobal Solutions ⋅ 20 years experience

Exception requests typically have to be recommended by the Admissions Committee for the program and each program will likely have a slightly different requirements for admission. The exception should delineate what you outlined starting out like the following

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Program Admission

Ref.: Application To the XYZ program

I request the admissions committee to consider the following factors while considering my request for ....

George Niece ⋅ Saint Paul , MN eGlobal Solutions ⋅ 20 years experience

Hi Travis,

Most admissions folks understand that there are lots of circumstances. People get accepted all the time with less than stellar overall GPAs. Assuming that you effectively outline for admissions what you mentioned above, I think you have an excellent chance of admission to most schools, although in some cases it could be provisional. The key is to pick a couple of schools, do your research and write one heck of an explanation of what happened. Dropping out to serve your country in time of need, and completing your undergraduate degree while on active duty are going to resonate with most people. Good luck and I'd be happy to proofread anything that you come up with including your resume.

I should ask was your GPA under a 2.5? Please feel free to post in private if you're not comfortable posting that to the list.

Best regards,
George